Declan Ganley
We are back in London and back in the Mt. Bonnell Baker Street offices, and in true Sherlock Holmes fashion, there’s a knock at the door…
It’s Declan Ganley, a successful businessman and enterprising entrepreneur who runs his business in both Europe and America.
He came to talk to us about making it big on the other side of the pond and how his childhood experiences have helped him to become successful.
He talks us through some of the difficulties that come with moving a business to America, and how to overcome them, and also shares some other tips that he’s learned over the years about how to make the move successfully.
“Americans still have an appetite for risk like no one else. And that’s what you need to get your foot in the door.”
Time Stamps:
2:11 - Who Declan is and what he does as an entrepreneur.
3:29 - How Declan entered the US market and the opportunities that he found there.
8:44 - Rivada’s involvement in 5G technology.
10:41 - Advice for someone with a successful European business who wants to move it to America.
16:14 - The key qualities that an entrepreneur needs to be successful.
21:58 - How the entrepreneurial mindset helps when emigrating.
28:18 - What the most challenging aspect is for a European moving a business to America.
32:34 - How America has changed over the past ten years.
Resources:
Connect with Kevin Turley: Website
Connect with Sebastian Sauerborn: LinkedIn
Connect with Declan Ganley: Twitter
Episode Transcript
Episode 11: Declan Ganley
I don’t really believe too much in a work life balance, I think that it’s- your business is your life and your life is your business and you need to be happy in that.
Entrepreneurs have a different story. They go and they follow a burning desire in their gut.
You’re listening to Move Your Business to the United States, with me, your host, Kevin Turley.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the director of the Mercury Theatre and star of this broadcast, Orson Wells. We know now that in the early years of the twentieth century, this world was being watched closely by intelligences greater than man’s and yet as mortal as its own. We know now that as human beings seeing themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinized and studied, perhaps so much as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinize the frenzied creatures but sworn and multiplied in a drop of water. [music]
Kevin: Hi, we are back in London, in fact the Mount Bonnell team are back in the offices at Baker Street and as the best Sherlock Holmes stories, a knock comes to the door, and soon enough we have a visitor and an adventure. If an arch is solely insight. Declan Ganley is a successful businessman and enterprising entrepreneur on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. Declan came to talk to us about making it big in America, and how his childhood experiences in Ireland helped propel him to his current success.
Kevin: So today we are in London in the Mount Bonnell headquarters here on Baker Street and we have with us a very special guest who is both an entrepreneur and also European entrepreneur who does a lot of business in the United States. So, so far on this show we’ve had mostly Americans or British or Europeans based in the United States, this is our first interview at this side of the Atlantic, with somebody who is working across the Atlantic, and I’m going to let him introduce himself.
Declan: I’m Declan Ganley, I’m the chairman and the CEO of Rivada Networks, I’m Irish, I’m married to an American girl from Staten Island, New York, I’m a technology entrepreneur, I’ve been an entrepreneur since the late 1980s, starting off when I was 19 years old, and I’ve been in the wireless industry since 1994, when I put together a consortium to bid for the second set of license in Ireland and then I, years after that set up broad net and rolled out, fixed wireless networks across 10 countries in Europe and founded Rivada Networks, the business that I’m now chairman and CEO of, in 2004 to deploy networks across the US, first of all initially for public safety and now to a much broader scope of an addressable market.
Kevin: So, not much experience there, Sebastian?
Sebastian: Well, yeah, definitely, I have difficulties to keep up, yeah, so a lot of details there, so can you describe a little bit your US operations that you have right now, maybe in terms of size, employees, where the company is based, and so and so forth.
Declan: Rivada is a company, as I was saying, was set up in 2004 the first contract that we had in the US was with North at US Northern Command which was to do the concept of operations and concepts of execution for deployable emergency broadband communications. And that actually levit a lot of the experience that I had had deploying broadband networks in Europe, with Broad Net, which I founded in the 90s, with deployed- the top 42 towns and cities in Germany, the top 40 in France, Basel, Bern, Zurich, Geneva in Switzerland and anyway, many other places and so we used that experience and really put it to work as we looked at the US challenge, and as we developed solutions for disaster response in the US for Norad US Northcom it became very clear to us, that there was both an opportunity and indeed a need to change the way that we deliver capacity on wireless networks that actually, the old way of auctioning off spectrum, that had started in the late 1990s, was erroneous and needed to be addressed, and was going to end up and I had all bets at the time and the interviews that I gave at the time, it would end up really harming and ultimately killing the west lead, in wireless technologies.
So Rivada focused then on developing patents and inventing technology for dynamics spectrum arbitrage open access wireless markets and marketplace for capacity on networks and location based services technology so that you can pinpoint to within 25 cubic centimeters exactly where the device was even without GPS. We currently have over 200 patents granted with many more in the pipeline. We built a team drawing- I went after the best minds in the industry in the US and overseas from the US and put together an engineering team. So the core group in Rivada is just over a hundred people, that’s PHDs, scientists and others, you know people with specific areas of discipline, discipline that are relevant to network deployment, we hired the foremost CIO of Sprint, we hired here in the UK, David Hanson who was the CEO of the Ready Communications Agency which became off com and put together very strong, we hired Elizabeth Moore who was the head of Deck Capital Markets and Nomura, the bank so that’s the core team of senior executives that we- I mean there are many more but a brilliant team of people drawn from across range of disciplines, not just technology but from banking, from regulatory agencies, even from journalism.
Brian Carney, we hired Brian, he was on the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal and he was on the editorial board of the Wall Street Journal Europe, and actually I had a dare with Brian one day, we were both at a dinner in the middle of Europe somewhere, and Brian was talking about something rather- making a great case for capitalism, and I said you know, you need to stop preaching capitalism and start coming, start practicing it. And he said “is that a dare?” I said “yes”, he said “okay, make me an offer” [smiling] so I did and that was five years ago, so it’s a great team of people, a wonderful board, and a great group of investors, and shareholders, all of whom are committed to the mission of really radically changing the way that we deliver wireless in a way that’s going to democratize access lower barriers to entry and fire up the economies of the countries where this gets adopted, the US economy, of course being front and foremost for us, but also Europe and Latin America and many other places around the world.
This, what we are doing and what we’ve developed here and in advocating open access wholesale wireless markets, getting Wall Street to back that, begin for structure funds and others being prepared to put their money behind these deployments, you know, it’s hated by the incumbents, the incumbents have been turned, really not through any fault of their own but into giant rent seekers, so we have been in the west put it, great disadvantage because of, really the high price of accessing capacity and what Rivada is all about is changing that and boosting economic activity because of it.
Sebastian: That sounds very fascinating Declan, so are you also involved in the new deployment of 5G technology?
Declan: Yes, so a lot of Rivada’s patents are very central to 5G. Now we have not and we deliberately did not actively participate in the so called standards forums because the standards forums are not built for- you have to be a giant company like Huawei or that kind of scale to be able to- it’s almost like you have to set up like a government department to participate in these things, they take a long time, but the thing about these standards forums is while you can go in and get your patents met standards that does not invalidate your patent. If you’re not at that table and something is made a standard but you have a patent covering it, than you have a standards valid patent. So we thought, we weren’t going to these forums, those forums happened to be dominated by China or 5G but we have ip that its standard now if you like, cross, and because there are, some of these things land right on top of our patents, we will be exercising our rights without concern.
Kevin: Declan there’s absolutely no doubt that you have a very, very successful career as an entrepreneur both in Europe and in North America. This show is about successful entrepreneurs moving and expanding their business into the United States. You have done business both sides of the Atlantic, what advice would you give if somebody was to bump into you today in London, say, in a restaurant or bar and say to you, “Declan I’m thinking of moving my business, a very successful European business entrepreneurial business to the United States”. What would be the key piece of advice that you would start to offer to that perso
Declan: Well if I met them in a restaurant or in a bar and they ask me that question I would say “pick up my tab here and I might give you some information” [smiling] my advice to- no I did it- so Rivada, when it was born, it was an Irish company. Yeah but the thing about Ireland is, great country and all, but very small population and then, I had already done roll out in Europe with Broad Net which was fantastic and had a very positive experience with that, but I also knew that contending with 28 different regulators was not easy and that made the ability to do the kind of revolutionary act that we wanted to do in wireless in Europe was going to be a much tougher hill to climb. And America is, people say all sorts of things about America, but it is the best place to go to seek opportunity.
The barriers to entry are not low but you won’t find them any more lower anywhere else in the world. The opportunity is enormous because it provides scale like nowhere else provide scale. And it provides rule of law like few other places provide rule of law. So you have a common law country that has rule of law that office scale, that are kitten keen, I’m Irish I’ve got more relatives in America than I have in Ireland at this point. My wife is American, my kids are American, they’ve all got an American citizenship as well and I love America, I was brought up to love America, I mean, you understand that. I’m a vet I was born in 1968, you know, middle of the cold war, earliest discussions I can remember in my house were about, I remember my father said long before Ronald Regan said, you know Mr. Gorbachev turned out this war, my father said, I don’t believe anything that those crowd say about Soviets until that wall comes down. So I was brought up to be Anticommunist, anti-collectivist, believe in free market, my father was a small businessman, here in the UK, an Irish guy from the west of Ireland that moved here, set up a small construction business and I was given every opportunity, and I always knew that America was a place where opportunity like that existed but on a much bigger scale.
And so I wanted to be there anyway, when I had to raise money, when I was in my early twenties, one of the things I did is I went to Russia and I privatized 28 sole mills, as one does, and I knew this Soviet Union was going to collapse, watched it happening, and privatized the sole mills, ended up selling that business to George Soros and Renaissance Capital it’s not that George and I would agree on politics but his money is good.
And I’ve sold that business in August of ’97 but when I had to raise money to go out and make those acquisitions, even in London, I wouldn’t have been let in the door of most places. I was 22, 23 years old, nobody, I’d no college degree, nothing. I wouldn’t even get in the door in most places here in London, I went to New York and I was able to raise the money. And Americans still have an appetite for risk like nobody else, and that’s what you need when you’re an entrepreneur.
Ireland has already set an example and a standard for other small nations to follow. This has never been a rich or powerful country. And yet since earliest times, its influence on the world has been rich and powerful. No larger nation did more to keep Christianity and Western culture alive in their darkest centuries, no larger nation did more to spark the cause of American independence and independence indeed around the world. And no larger nation has ever provided the world with more literary or artistic genius. This is an extraordinary country, George Bernard Shaw speaking as an Irishman, sums up and alive, “other people” he said, “see things and say why, but I dream things that never were and I say why not”.
Kevin: In terms of your entrepreneurial path, I’m sort of fascinated why, a high of 22 or 23 whatever it was you had the vision and you had the courage to do that. Just broadening an idea a little bit, what- this show is for entrepreneurs and most entrepreneurs are listening to, will start their own business or been at that journey a number of people we’ve been spoken to I’ve given the opinion of what it is the key thing for an entrepreneur to have when starting out on those journey or keeping going on those journeys. What in your opinion is, is that key ingredient that you noticed in other entrepreneurs maybe you’ve noticed it in yourself that has made you last the course and be very successful along the way.
Declan: Really, really, really hard work and tenacity. Never give in. Now that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t walk away from a particular project if you find, if you experimented with something and it doesn’t work, you know, that’s a successful experiment, if you can find something that doesn’t work walk away from it, move on to the next thing but then apply the lessons learned. It’s interesting I think it was only last week there was a study, I can’t remember which university put it out, but there was something, talking about the thread that now is seen in so-called successful entrepreneurs, it’s that they all had very early engagement or experience with sales, very early, very young, they were out selling something. Now in my case that was true and it was driven by necessity. We moved back from England to Ireland when I was 13, just turning 13 years old. And I wanted to make a few quid and so, I mean, you’ll understand Kevin, there you have these peat bogs in Ireland. And I went and I rented a stretch of peat bog and I hired in a turf machine and I paid for the rent of the entire turf machine that would cut the piece with some, my confirmation money that I had saved up.
And you get ten pounds from your grandparents or whatever, but I had enough I think it was 150 or something to rent this turf machine. And I cut this huge amount of turf and saved it that summer. And I ended up selling 77 big trailer loads of peat, fuel and I would go to the local markets with a tractor and trailer, my father’s tractor and trailer and I remember there was a place called Dunmore County Galway ruled the town in the west of Ireland and they would have their fair day or whatever day it was so that all the stores were set out. So the thing about the Dunmore fair is that you have to get there to get a good spot you have to get there like 4 AM. So, I hit off in a tractor and trailer it was about nine mile journey. God knows it was dark, got to Dunmore and got the prime spot on the corner of the square [smiling] set my trailer up, went and parked the tractor somewhere else and put my big sign on the trailer and it was you know trailer turf, whatever it was, 70 pounds load I can’t remember but whatever it was, whatever the number was.
So I’m standing there in Dunmore square, with my sign on the trailer and a big trailer loaded turf, and my grandfather’s sister was a woman of some standing in the town. They had a shop and a petrol station and were kind of- you know yourself she’s a great lady, aunty Kitty. And apparently aunty Kitty saw me through the shop window and was horrified because only street merchants sold turf [smiling] and so, my- she sends out a cousin of mine and he comes out and it’s about 7:30 in the morning, he comes out and he said “oh your aunty Kitty wants to buy your trailer”, and I’m saying, “oh fantastic, great”. And he said “you can drop it around the back in the shade or whatever” and I said “granted I’ll do it later on”, he said “good”. So anyway, probably two or three hours went by and I’m still there.
So he comes out again and he said “your aunty Kitty wants to know why you’re still here”. I said “I’ve got seventy more loads of these to sell” [smiling] and he burst out laughing [smiling] she was trying to kept me off the street [smiling] and then I would buy- the other thing I would do is I would buy those electronic games from Argos actually over here and bring them over to Ireland and I used to rent them out in school to other kids in school, for, you know, ten pennies or whatever it was. I was always hustling to make a few quid and the headmaster of my school would allow me to go downtown the Alister Banking Glatamatty and I used to buy and sell shares and placed my order for the Alister Bank. So I was doing all of that when I was 15, 14, 15, 16 years of age. It was in the blood, and I knew that I wanted to be in business, from, I certainly knew it by the time I was 15.
Hi, you’re listening to Move Your Business to the United States. Just a quick word from our sponsors, Mount Bonnell Advisors. The people are being advising clients and moving states side for years. For all your needs, both business and practical, head over to mtbonnell.com to find out more. Thank for listening [music]
Kevin: Declan, you think that the experience of your parents coming from Ireland to England and your father setting up business and then you going from England to Ireland and doing your- starting your entrepreneurial activities while young, you think that has given you a certain sort of mobility, internationally, that you don’t actually, you know that people are slightly constrained by their circumstances, either it’s too comfortable or they are not comfortable enough. But the way you described your business at the start is so international, so mobile literally, all over the place. You think that experience of being an immigrant in whatever country it is, a lot of the people we were talking to are immigrating to the United States, moving their business and also emigrating. Do you think there is something that, their entrepreneurial mindset lends itself to that adventure like nothing else, I guess?
Declan: If you are an emigrant, immigrant, you’re taking a risk of some kind. And you know, every study you look at, there’s disproportionately higher accounting for entrepreneurship in emigrant communities. And it’s because, there is clearly an appetite for risk, otherwise they wouldn’t have been there. I mean they have accepted that they are going to dislodge themselves from what is normal for them and put them themselves to another situation. So that, I suppose, willingness to accept dislocation, whatever it might be, maybe for the better of it, maybe for the worse, I think it’s part of the mindset.
You don’t have to be an immigrant to be a successful entrepreneur there’s plenty of them around but I think it certainly in my case it’s a sole curiosity. It’s a sole curiosity. I mean, look, the reason I went to Russia and this is going to sound completely wacko to most of your listeners, I was brought up in a very Orthodox Catholic family. And my mother, my grandmother used to make, we used to make the rosary every night in our house. And one decade of the rosary was always for the conversion of Russia. And you know when you’re seven years old that leaves an impression on you, cause you think “wow these guys must be really bad” [smiling] so I didn’t need Ronald Regan to tell me that “it’s the evil empire”, I knew it already. And so I wanted to go to Russia early because I wanted to see what the thing was about. And when I went there it became very clear that it was a giant village that the Soviet Union was this rotten thing that was on the verge of collapse and collapse it did and it was great to witness it in so many ways.
Kevin: Sebastian that experience of the immigrant experience, in terms of the clients that you’re working with that are in the United States, would you say that Declan is onto something with that whole idea of risk taking?
Sebastian: Yeah, yeah definitely. I mean I think Declan is absolutely right, you know, with that. I mean, there are many people who say they would never leave, you know, where they are from, they will never leave the town or the village where they are from. But they can’t become successful in their own right but I think if you are serious about starting a business then you definitely have to expand your perspective and look beyond of what is just in front of you. So yeah I totally agree that for most of our clients, so we have many clients who are coming from Germany and I guess it’s even more, a bigger step you know when you speak a different language than English. So with being from Britain or from Ireland at least the language isn’t, is similar, is the same, you know. My experience is specifically in the States and I lived there for a number of years, that the United States are very friendly, especially towards Europeans, they find them interesting, they find them maybe even slightly more intelligent, you know, so I think the United States are very welcoming to European entrepreneurs would you agree with that?
Declan: Very much so, now it is an important point that you made, because it is a bit different for someone that is a non-English speaker going to America it was very easy for me, I already- as I said I have more relatives in America than I probably do home in Ireland I mean, first cousins, uncles, you name it, they are over there. We would say, my mother comes from Achill Island, all of the west coast of Ireland they would say, the next, the neighboring parish is Boston and that’s very much how they thought. They thought trans-atlantically was in the culture, it’s even in the accent.
Those ties, and they go way back, I mean, a couple of hundred years now, one of my great great parents, sets of great great parents were married in Boston. They eloped and they got married in Boston, and they eventually came back. My fourth great grandfather was one of the early sort of new catholic landlords in Ireland because he bought part of Achill Island of the Slygo having come back from America and having made some money we think, in the California gold rush. So these ties are and have always been there. For a German, you know, going to America, it is a bit different, but the Americans, I mean, they love the Irish, St. Patrick’s Day a few days ago, the whole country turns green, everybody is Irish for the day. I mean, Ireland is the only country in the world that has admission with the president of the United States on the schedule every year.
That’s a very privileged position to be in for such a small place. Look, these huge cultural ties all of Europe and the US they have great respect for European entrepreneurs, the west really means something, especially in the post 1945 environment, the west really means something, and it’s really- I’m worried about that, and I’m worried about that slowly becoming unglued, but for me, I mean, I am an Atlanticist I actually used to have that on my Twitter profile, one of the things it said Atlanticist, entrepreneur and Atlanticist, and too many people have asked me, what is that. You know, they thought it was somebody with guilds or something [smiling] but that transatlantic relationship is essential for Europe is essential for the US and I think it is very important for the rest of the world.
Kevin: Well Declan I don’t think you find it discriminatory on this table on all of you’ve said certainly Sebastian’s experience who’s lived and worked in the United States and owns businesses over there, and yourself, okay, let’s- somebody listening to this either, in the process of moving to the United States or thinking about it. Now, let’s have a little bit of a reality check, what is the thing that’s the hardest being European working in the United States. I mean we’ve been in Texas a few times in the last couple of months, and every time I go there’s something that strikes you, which reminds you that, although is very familiar in all sorts of ways, there is something very different about the United States as well. Without wishing to be negative about it, what’s the most challenging aspect of doing business in the United States for European company?
Declan: Okay, that’s very specific, what’s the most challenging aspect, for European, well I’m not owning an European company, I own American company. So Rivada is an American company, American parent, but, take your point, for European in America, the most challenging aspect, look, it’s the same everywhere, it’s breaking into, unchallenging incumbents, if you want to do something really big, I mean, if you are going to open some candy store or something, I think you’re probably okay, right, but if you going to go in, and you want to disrupt the business model of ATNT which is what I want to do, that’s one of the things I take pride in mission to disrupt that, in a way that’s really good for them and I hope you hear this ATNT it’s going to be good for you at the end. And it really is going to be good for them at the end. I’m not saying that sarcastically, but to disrupt business models, coming up against what I call Crownin corporatism, regulatory capture, deep, deep seated relationships and big fat happy Crowney corporacists who like to rent seek and don’t want to be disrupted. But look, that’s the story of an industry, of an innovation, those guys have always been there, they always fight a big action it’s something that I have found particularly challenging and I know from other entrepreneurs whether they are European entrepreneurs or they are non-European entrepreneurs that’s something that everybody count is, the power of incumbency, the regulatory capture the Crowney corporatism, challenging that and breaking it. It’s hard, but I’ll say this, it’s hard everywhere. It’s hard but in America, America will give you a chance to do that, won’t make it easy, but it will give you a chance to do that, like nowhere else would give you a chance to do that. I’m not saying it’s easy, they have all those problems they’re all there but the American spirit is always willing to give the pioneer. Someone said a pioneer is going with an arrow in his back, right, I mean, they are willing to give the pioneer a chance and institutionally, even though there may be special relationships and regulatory caption and everything else, they’ve got that sense of sheer curiosity, they like the scrapper, they like David going up against Goliath, because America is all about David going up against Goliath, America was David. And okay, it’s Goliath now, but it was David and that’s what being America is all about. It’s taking on- you know I’d love to go to Mount Vernon, I’ve been there, I must have made this as a joke for my family, my family was George Washington’s house in north of West Virginia it’s not far of Washington DC. And you go out to that house guys, and visit it, and walk through it and understand that this guy took on the most powerful empire that the world had ever seen at that point. This little farmer and he thought it can be done. That’s the American spirit right there, you can feel it right there in Mount Vernon. And it inspires me.
Sebastian: Yeah, and I would totally agree with that, I mean you know that sympathy with the underdog is definitely there I understand and it’s a lot easier than it is in Europe to basically get a chance to disrupt the market. I think here although is not maybe as visible, corporatism but is probably worse that it is in the States, because here it’s almost unbreakable and in Europe you know, because it’s also involved with politics and many times these structures in Europe, you know, through the guilds have been established since the Middle Ages. So we talk about centuries of conglomerates, of nepotism, of all sorts of corruption in a sense, and that doesn’t exist in the States, so I think I would agree most definitely, easier to break into the market into the States. Declan, I mean, do you see America changing of the last few decades since you are, since you are aware of it, and do you see this as the positive change or negative change? Are you worried, what’s your opinion about that?
Declan: I am worried but sometimes I think it’s just cause I’m older [smiling] when I was 22 I didn’t realize how many things could go wrong and now I do [smiling] but look, some of the debates that are going on now, I mean, look at this new green deal, look through it, it’s Marxism wearing a green jacket. The fact that these arguments that are being made by the likes of Bernie Sanders and AFC and all of the- people like that, where staff that was tried and tested in the Soviet Union and the war some pact countries and you know, more recently in Venezuela, or everything else, I mean, this crazy stuff that has been tried, failed, cost lives and destroyed so much opportunities in innovation, families, to see people advocating this stuff in America now, nothing like that has happened in America since the 1930s, I mean, we are really close to being- it’s now acceptable to say, you know, you are a left wing Socialist in America to say you are a Communist is anymore very short step and I can’t tell the difference when you read, what are they proposing. So that worries me, and yes, I’ve made this case many times, with different administrations, America still have that great self-correcting ability it can tack one way between left and right and run this line like no other system can, and I think that’s because of the system that they found is put in place. You have a biochemical legislative that still works, as a biochemical legislative should, you have recognition of states and the say of states, it is a true republic. And it operates as a true republic, it is not a popular democracy with popular democracy with the likes of place I warned this about you know the worst excesses of it. And it works for that reason. So when you say people saying we want to get rid of the electoral college or we need to- that would mean that eight states in America decide who runs the country. The American republic is not necessarily the most ideal system. But it is the least worst system in the world what we have right now, and I have great faith in it.
Kevin: Declan this has been a very interesting discussion I’m sure you would agree Sebastian.
Sebastian: Yeah, totally, fascinating, absolutely.
Kevin: So Declan, you just got a, you are the embodiment of what many people listening to this will want to be. You’ve just flown in from New York, you are heading off to another meeting in London and I don’t know where are you doing tonight, is it Moscow or is it Bellanair -?
Declan: I’m going to Abbeyknockmoy, County Galway [smiling]
Kevin: Well it’s close to Bellanair [smiling] well Declan thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule and inspiring many who would listen to this. To make that voyage of discovery, like some Brandon of Old across the seas to America. Thank you very much
Declan: Thank you all
[music] Next time on Move Your Business to the United States, so a lot of people choose to start businesses in Texas because there is no state level income tax for individuals, that’s true for Florida, as well, and a couple of other states, but that’s a big advantage.
You’ve been listening to Move Your Business to the United States with me Kevin Turley. A huge thanks to my producer Emmett Glynn, who produces this podcast for Mount Bonnell Media. To find out more, go to mtbonnell.com and remember, ‘Dream big, dream America’.
